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Tue Comments -the Wakefield Doctrine- …and Tue answers (plus…)

Welcome to the Wakefield Doctrine (the theory of clarks, scotts and rogers)

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(from this weekend’s ‘hop… a comment from Lizzi regarding a statement that was made about (a) clarks capability to engage in social interaction. the block quotes being the thread)

Lizzi:

“…the thing we don’t have, is that natural inclination to participate in the commerce of social interaction ” ORLY? (L.)

“But…I LOVE making connections and talking to people. Perhaps I’m more scottian than I think.” (L.)

I did not say ‘make connections’ I used the words: ‘…participate in the commerce of social interaction’ (c)

we clarks loves to make connections… we are better at it, (making, discovering, illustrating and generally, pointing out to anyone near, the connections that exist between all things), than scotts and rogers are, if for no other reason than the fact that we are on the outside looking in/over/at the world. Who better to see connections, than the Outsider? (And, yes, I do note that you used the word ‘make’  we’ll come back to that.)
commerce‘ in the above statement is meant to imply an exchange that occurs between people when interacting within a social context.  It’s said that, ‘clarks think, scotts act and rogers feel’ and, from this, we can view this (social) exchange as a bartering among people. a scott will (offer) to do things: play games, yell at people, chase down those who would flee, make people do things… a roger is aware of the things that people feel attachment to, fear the effects of, or covet a place that another may occupy… and a clark, well, a clark knows stuff, creates (that which did not previously exist) and, above all, clarks see the inter-relatedness (the connections) among the parts and things and people of the world (all three worlds, if we’re to be accurate).

Trouble is…. clarks give their thing of value away for free. a clark is said to be the most generous and (willing to) share of the three personality types, ( “...hey did you know? …hey, I learned the coolest thing the other day, …by the way, you want to hear something really neat?“) which one might conclude is a good thing. Unfortunately, not counting gift-giving, most people do not place a large value on things that are offered without a price.  In this ‘commerce’ of social interaction there is (a) bartering going on and clarks suffer from 2 very significant weaknesses:

  1. we learn and know and discover things, (mostly the connections among things), and recognize the limitlessness of this ‘commodity’ and are not concerned with getting an equal value in exchange (because we can always find more)
  2. we do not (normally) demand the highest price in exchange of what we offer (in this commerce), because the one thing a clark fears the most, avoids at all costs is ‘scrutiny’  (and, yes, I will stop at this point and let the questions create themselves)

…so, that is a little additional Reply to our friend Lizzi’s Comment

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Denise:

“this morning my question concerns rogers…..what happens when a roger loses his/her “rogerian expression” (not through choice)?” (D.)

good question! in part because (the) ‘answer’ is an illustration of how the Wakefield Doctrine offers multiple uses, (i.e. fun and insight), for all of us. It, (the Wakefield Doctrine), is a metaphor and it’s an analog that allows us to see the world from another perspective. And, because we have these additional perspectives, we can frame our understanding different ways (fun)… ‘she is such a scott! you could see her nose twitching as soon as she stepped into the meeting hall full of engineers!‘… ‘I saw two clarks engaged in a conversation the other night… I’m pretty sure I did, but, of course nothing, including the logic of their exchange, can escape the gravitational pull of the black hole of two clarks in conversation‘  you know, like that!

so Denise’s question can be interpreted as: can a person lose the realness of their personal reality?  This can also be framed as: does the set of strategies and coping mechanisms that are the product of our growing up and developing in one of the three worldviews (that of the Outsider/clark, the world of the Predator/scott or the reality of the Herd Member/roger) eventually wear thin, become less and less the personal expression of how a person relates themselves to the world around them… can age (or circumstances) diminish the clarity of expression of (a) person’s personality type?

the best answer must start with a question: what is the ‘rogerian expression’?  (The short, but nevertheless useful answer is: ‘the rogerian expression is that which makes a roger feel as an individual while remaining a part of the Herd (which, by definition, does not recognize individual individuality…. ‘) lol   yes, more to follow.

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from the blogger formerly known as zoe (tbfkaz):

When I started reading Denise’s question and your answer I thought you were gonna answer the question ive been asking since I met you! Did you answer it? I think you may have avoided it and reworked the question! E for evolution. …can life circumstances cause a personal evolution into another predominant personality type? Not just we all do stuff sometimes. ..???????? Whaddya think? 

No, no I did not. Where I am heading, (with Denise’s question), is a consideration of what ‘the rogerian expression’* is and what happens when it diminishes (as has been observed in aging rogers), all in the service of a better understanding of a) the nature of the three worldviews and, 2) by inference, what is the potential value to self-improving ourselves?  are we to gain by better understanding of (the) characteristic of (one of) the three worldviews .

But, addressing what I hear is your question…. can we move, evolve or otherwise go from worldview-to-worldview, personality type-to-personality type?  the current answer is, ‘no’  the current answer will have to wait for later in the day, as it is quite involved (i.e. I don’t have the rhetorical skills to concisely express the idea that these worldviews are real, the world is as described, it is not my ‘choice’ to act as would an Outsider…. my acts (as an Outsider) are appropriate to the world, the reality that I am experiencing today, (in fact, the reality I was faced with as a small, young life form)…. having said that, there is an argument to be made for ‘catastrophic’ changes in one’s life and, therefore, (possibly), a change in the character of a person’s predominant worldview. You might be thinking, “yeah, sure,  but what about your much-vaunted secondary aspects, what about those? huh? well… answer me, dammit!!!” (lol)  the key element to our ‘behavior’,  is the energy that is involved…. (no, the following probably will not make any, ‘standalone’, sense….), if our behavior is not related to the world around us in a way that produces/conducts/returns energy, then it is a fad, an affectation and has nothing to do with a worldview…. (more to follow)

you know, I was just re-reading this Post and next month’s ‘Apples-to-Zuchinni Blog Challenge’, will be very productive provided the right words are found. Clearly there exists a need for a comprehensive yet simple outline of our little personality theory, especially now with newer Readers such as Val and Lisa and them joining us in our pursuit of better understanding the world around us. ya know?

* not to be confused with ‘a rogerian expression’!

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clarkscottroger About clarkscottroger
Well, what exactly do you want to know? Whether I am a clark or a scott or roger? If you have to ask, then you need to keep reading the Posts for two reasons: a)to get a clear enough understanding to be able to make the determination of which type I am and 2) to realize that by definition I am all three.* *which is true for you as well, all three...but mostly one

Comments

  1. ivywalker says:

    When I started reading Denise’s question and your answer I thought you were gonna answer the question ive been asking since I met you! Did you answer it? I think you may have avoided it and reworked the question! E for evolution. …can life circumstances cause a personal evolution into another predominant personality type? Not just we all do stuff sometimes. ..???????? Whaddya think?

  2. lrconsiderer says:

    Sooooooo what do the scott and the roger get in return for their investment? And what do we miss out on?

    • clarkscottroger clarkscottroger says:

      L

      being real people

      (but that, of course, is a construct that we create to make sense of our relationship (as) Outsiders, to everyone else)

      ….they get whatever they want to (try to) get, but, of course they do not have the perspective that we have on the transaction.

      We know that scotts get to live, they chase prey, they run from bigger predators (or fight them is they make that choice)…they lead their lives as the only way they have available. (a friend, glenn, who is a scott with a significant clarklike secondary aspect was said, ‘the idea of living in the world as I do (as a clark) would be horrible to the point of intolerability for him… that I don’t count on anything (necessarily) being a constant, that as a clark my strength is that if the sun rose in the West tomorrow and had the shape of square, shiny cardboard box, would not ‘stop me’… I would just hunch my shoulders and push on…. as a scott, (he continued), the basic laws of reality are constants and for them to be anything else would cause him to hide in a cave.

      and rogers live as Herd Members… jostling for position within the Herd, sometimes winning, sometimes losing. Most rogers (not counting those enlightened ones, such as Kristi and Michelle, who have managed to integrate their clarklike secondary into their life as part of the Herd), live at the center of a perfect world.

      so everyone does and gets for their efforts whatever their worldview calls for…. for us, it is to be Outsiders.

      ..but this new thing, this identifying among clarks… that offers a loophole. We are still singular and Outsiders (which, by definition means, the only one of our kind…lol) but we hear the sound, and glimpse the lives of other Outsiders and we are more for that…

      • lrconsiderer says:

        We so very are :)

        *tries to imagine Christine on a day when the sun rose in the west*

        *shudders*

        • clarkscottroger clarkscottroger says:

          I was thinking, ok… maybe this can be the basis of tomorrow’s Post, but, (I continued to think, ‘it’s getting kind of late’)…and then I remembered where you live…. ayiee! the energy you have!

          • clarkscottroger clarkscottroger says:

            so… we do not ‘get the same thing’ from the ‘commerce of social interaction’ that our scottian and rogerian friends do… does that mean that we get nothing… or a bad thing or what?

            • clarkscottroger clarkscottroger says:

              this can be viewed on a couple of levels:

              1) we are Outsiders we cannot exchange as equals with anyone (other than another clark…)

              B) it is not simply our status as Outsiders (that sets us apart), rather it is how we relate ourselves to the world around us… that is where the difficult, but valuable insights will be found

          • lrconsiderer says:

            Nah just avoidance

            • clarkscottroger clarkscottroger says:

              us avoiding them or them avoiding us?

              (yeah, both, depending on perspective…always that damn perspective, no?*)

              * and, no, even if we could create a perspective to be more reconcilable with those around us, we’d still be Outsiders and the thing that marks all clarks is the (elemental) fear that is a very real part of our worldlview

              • lrconsiderer says:

                Me avoiding real life, which is why I was up late.

                • clarkscottroger clarkscottroger says:

                  …cloaked in exhaustion, you miss the sneers of the rogers and the avid gaze of the scotts?

                  • lrconsiderer says:

                    Nope the desolation of clarks who don’t want to continue.

                    • clarkscottroger clarkscottroger says:

                      well, there is always that! but, …but! there are so many of our people out there, who, while this (understanding) does not turn us into real people, I will insist that it provides us (collectively and alone) as one more thing… not ‘hope’, not ‘a solution’…more along the lines of commiserating encouragement… (lol…no, I have no idea where that came from!)

  3. zannierose says:

    saying a hello back to you – roomie- great you got into the spirit of it all

    • clarkscottroger clarkscottroger says:

      yeah! (I’m totally gonna start to back-reference the dorm days as we go along)…
      have a bunch of ridiculously talented writer-type friends here (largely a result of my main bloghop, the (infamous) TToT) so it’s good to know that there are like-minded people over at the Me-to-Thee Blog Challenge